Bruno Souza on Building your Java Career
Jim Grisanzio with Bruno Souza
Duke’s Corner Podcast — August 13, 2022
JavaOne 2022 Speaker Preview
In this conversation Oracle’s Jim Grisanzio talks with Java developer and JavaOne 2022 speaker Bruno Souza from Brazil.
Bruno is a Java Champion, he’s been a board member of the Open Source Initiative, he’s on the Executive Committee of the Java Community Process, and he leads the SouJava community in Brazil.
Bruno has been building Java communities for decades, and in recent years he’s been helping Java developers build their careers. That’s the topic of this podcast and also Bruno’s session at JavaOne in October in Las Vegas.
https://dukescorner.libsyn.com/bruno-souza-on-building-your-java-career
Transcript
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Hey, it’s Jim.
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How you doing?
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So as you know, Java 1 is back.
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This conference is scheduled for October 17th through 20th in Las Vegas.
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So I really do hope to see you all there.
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Now,
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as a part of the event,
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leading up to the event,
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I will be doing a series of conversations with some of the community speakers who
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will be there.
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So really cool.
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So I’ll get a chance to hear about what they’re talking about,
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why the conference is important,
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why it’s cool to go there and hang out and learn and do a little bit of hacking,
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all these things.
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First conversation here is with Bruno Souza.
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He’s been a friend of mine for over 20 years and I met him way, way back at Sun.
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And he’s just been one of the global leaders in the Java community and actually the
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open source community as well.
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He’s the leader of SoJava in Brazil.
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He’s been involved with the JCP and Java Champions.
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He was involved with the Open Source Initiative.
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And on Twitter, you can get him at BRJavaMan.
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He’s a great guy, very friendly.
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If you have a chance to meet him,
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if you see him at a conference,
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he’ll usually have a Brazilian flag draped over his back.
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He’s very friendly.
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Go up and talk to him, engage him.
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He loves to build community.
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And what he’s doing now, his upcoming session here, he’ll be talking about building your career.
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Very, very important.
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He’s got a lot of really cool things to talk about.
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Valuable advice for all of us,
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especially since,
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you know,
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we have to pay very,
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very close attention to our careers because things change out there so,
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so rapidly.
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So that’s it.
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More conversations coming, but here we go with Bruno Sousa.
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Bruno, Bruno Sousa, my good friend from Brazil.
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So Java, how are you?
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Hey, Jim, so good to be here with you, man.
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It’s a long time that we don’t see and looking forward to see you at Java One, right?
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Yeah, yeah.
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Java One is back October 17th through 20th,
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and it’s in Las Vegas this time,
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and I’m really looking forward to it.
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It’s going to be really great to get that brand rekindled again and get everybody back together.
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And so you and I saw each other, I think, in Atlanta last, right?
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It was at DevNexus.
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We saw briefly there, but yes.
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But,
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you know,
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look,
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I think that for me,
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this whole energy of,
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you know,
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being with the community,
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being with people and having like face-to-face conversation and be able to go out
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and have a dinner.
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I think this is so important for us to build the relationship that we need, right?
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To really keep growing and keep promoting Java worldwide, right?
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Right, right.
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Exactly, exactly.
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So I wanted to talk a little bit about just to get the conversation going here.
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You’re a speaker at the conference,
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and I noticed that you’re doing a really cool session beyond senior Java dev next
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steps for the tech career.
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So everybody has to everybody has to grow.
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I mean, because in this business, things change so
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so rapidly you know and and people have to keep up so career sessions i think are
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really really important so let’s start off with just you know going over your
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session what are you talking about
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Yeah,
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it’s interesting that,
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you know,
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I heard the other day someone saying that,
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you know,
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with the world moving so fast forward,
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right,
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just standing still is actually moving backward,
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right?
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So I think that, you know, we should be looking at ways for us to move forward, right?
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But at the same time, not in a way that’s prejudicial, right, to ourselves and to our lives, right?
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So, you know, sometimes we get this brackenack speed, right, that really…
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it’s not sustainable for the long run, right?
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So I totally agree with you that having those discussions,
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having those career discussions,
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it’s really important,
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right?
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You know,
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Java has been around for almost 30 years now and that creates,
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right,
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a huge amount of people that have many,
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many years of experience and that they’re suffering,
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right?
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With how do I move forward?
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What do I do?
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So this particular session that we’re going to talk about is,
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you know, talk about what can you do to go beyond senior, right?
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Because really,
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usually we do have a plan,
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right,
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on how to improve,
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how to be better,
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how to really get ourselves good technical skills,
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right?
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And then we get to a level, right, that we become a senior developer.
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And that can happen, you know, in 10 years or 15 years, depending on the developer.
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It could be less, could be a little bit more, right?
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But, you know,
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after that time right usually we reach a level that we’re not so sure what we do
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next right and you know it’s all possible and good that you continue to be uh a
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senior developer right and and and i you know i thought i was talking to a
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developer the other day that uh you know he’s been like a senior developer for the
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last you know 20 years right so it’s like you know so so that for a lot of people
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that is like the the end you know their ends goal i’d say right but
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there is a possibility, right?
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There’s possibilities for you to do beyond that, right?
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So for you to really have more impact,
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more impact in your company,
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more impact in your projects,
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more impact on the people around you in the community,
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you know,
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even more impact in the world,
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right?
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And so that’s what we’re gonna discuss, right?
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What are the possibilities for you to do this?
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And especially, how can you do this
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continue to do what you love, right?
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That’s being a technical person, right?
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Because I think there’s a push in some companies to push people into more
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management positions or more people kind of positions.
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But there is this desire from the technical side that we continue to be technical,
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continue to be involved with
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on technology, continue to be involved on building things, right?
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And so how can we do that?
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So that’s the whole discussion of the talk is how can we really do this,
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continue to build things,
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continue to be involved in technology,
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continue to do that at the same time that we grow,
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that we have more impact,
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that we get more responsibility,
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that we make more money,
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right?
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So how we can do those things in parallel and at the same time.
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So what happens?
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I mean, a lot of times engineers, as you said, will go into management.
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Is it harder to keep up with the trends if you move into management?
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Well, I think it is, right?
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Because once you become responsible for managing people, right?
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So you’re responsible for them, right?
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So you shift a little bit your vision from the technology into the people, right?
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So you’re responsible to see if they’re doing well,
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if they’re able to finish their work,
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if they have personal problems,
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they’re impacting what they’re doing.
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you know,
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even things like,
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you know,
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vacations and,
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you know,
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salaries and,
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you know,
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performance reviews.
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I mean, so you get into this worrying more about the people, right?
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What I think is awesome, there’s a lot of people that love to do that.
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And I think that,
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you know,
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the people that want to do this,
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man,
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they can do an amazing work and it can really impact the whole productivity of the
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company by doing this great work,
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right?
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But, you know, having all those skills of,
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of managing people and being worried about people and thinking about your team all
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the time,
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it takes away from the time that you’re putting into thinking about the technology,
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thinking about the technical problems.
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So although there are some managers that do a little bit of both,
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what we see is that people that really excel as being awesome managers,
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they end up losing a little bit of the technical side.
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what is okay right i mean that’s not a problem at all and uh but we also see that
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there’s a lot of people that would prefer not to uh do all this other work you
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prefer to not uh be worried about people right and so they just prefer to not
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manage anyone right so right uh you know we see a lot of technical managers right
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that they take like an off-hands approach right so that
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Oh, yeah, so I have my team.
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Each one handles their own thing, right?
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Because they really don’t want to do the managing, right?
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And so I think that we have to separate this a little bit.
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It’s interesting you mention that because I used to work in Solaris at Sun.
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And I remember…
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observing some of the engineering managers there,
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because I was a program manager at the time,
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on the open Solaris project and community manager,
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I guess.
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And so what I noticed,
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though,
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some of these managers,
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they moved into management after 510 years,
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whatever of engineering,
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but they brought that same discipline that they learned from engineering,
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into management and they became very skilled managers because they focused on management.
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They were no longer focused on engineering, but they took that training, that mindset, right?
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Right.
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So so I wonder how, you know, sort of with that in mind,
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know how many people just like off the top of your head when you’re talking to
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engineers how many of them are actually interested in going into management and
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sort of bringing that same discipline into management versus just growing their
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career as an engineer is it like 60 40 what’s the percentage
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Right.
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So first of all,
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one thing I want to point out,
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right,
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is that,
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you know,
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I don’t think that it’s,
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you know,
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it’s just growing their careers technically.
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I think that one important thing,
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that’s the most,
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the thing that we’re going to discuss a lot during the talk,
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right,
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is that,
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you know,
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when you go beyond senior,
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right,
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I mean,
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you have three main paths to going beyond senior,
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right?
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So,
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but whatever path you decide to take,
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either as a manager or continue to be a technical person or become more independent,
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right?
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So those are the three paths.
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If you, when you go beyond senior, it is a different job, right?
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It is a different position.
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So it’s not only continue to growing technically, right?
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So, I mean, it’s as hard to become a manager as it is to continue technical, right?
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Right.
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So those are those because you have to learn new skills.
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You have to to change the way you think.
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Right.
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No, you’re going to go into much more impactful position.
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Right.
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So you’re going to deal with different things.
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Right.
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So we can we can even talk a little bit about that.
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But but, you know, what I see a lot.
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is that developers in general,
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so the people that I see is that either they are saying,
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I’m going to management because that’s the only way I can see to grow,
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or because I see this as a path for me to make more money,
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to get a higher salary,
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right?
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And a lot of people are doing this more, not because they really want to be a manager, right?
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But because they see as the only path.
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Yes,
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there are some developers that they really love this,
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that they really want to become managers,
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but I don’t think that’s the majority at all.
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From my experience,
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at least,
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talking with hundreds of developers,
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my experience is that this is usually a minority of developers that say,
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really excited to become a manager.
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But this might be my focus view, right?
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Because what I do is not helping developers become managers.
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So maybe they’re talking to other people, right?
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But I think that what I see most is developers that they want to grow, but they think that
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They don’t want to be managers.
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They don’t see how they can grow not becoming managers, so they just stay where they are, right?
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So they think that the way for them to get better is for them to just learn more technologies,
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know some more things,
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maybe move to a company that pays more,
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right?
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So they’re not seeing too much on what is the real path that they can take beyond a senior position.
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And a lot of that, man, is that there is a confusion in the market, right?
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It’s not only the developer.
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A lot of times it’s the companies, right?
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The companies,
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they have a very clear vision on,
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okay,
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so if you want to grow,
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you have your own team,
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right?
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And you start managing people.
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So companies kind of have this view very clear.
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And I think there’s a lot of…
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a lot of discussions, right?
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There’s excellent books, right?
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And even trainings on how to become a manager, right?
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How to do that step.
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And I think that has been very established for a long, long time.
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But I think that in the last…
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several years, right?
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Because, you know, the rise of the importance of the developer, right?
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So I think that’s,
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you know,
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I don’t know,
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in the last 10,
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15 years,
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the software developer becomes such an important person inside companies that
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companies start looking at,
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okay,
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so how can that person continue to be a software developer?
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How can that person continue to improve our products, continue to be focused on technology, right?
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Because I don’t want to lose,
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the great developer that we have, right?
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And so companies also started to start looking at that in a different way.
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And so those paths become a little bit more clear in the last few years, right?
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So,
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and one interesting thing is that before that,
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right,
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before those paths become clear inside the companies,
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what we had a lot was developers that would become independent,
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right?
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So they become consultants,
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they would become,
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you know,
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they would launch their own companies or something like this.
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So they could continue to be technical without being forced
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into more management position, right?
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And so I think that those are what constitute the three main path, right?
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That people are taking is that one, become a manager, right?
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Go through this very established process and go manage people.
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Second is to continue to be technical.
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And I think some companies have this path clear, right?
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So especially the big ones have this path more clear.
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And so they can even help you continue to be technical, continue to have a technical influence.
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But some companies don’t have that.
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And so that’s a lot of times it’s from the development themselves that have to…
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Like,
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you know,
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build that path inside their companies and teach their companies how they can
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continue to evolve and continue to be useful in a more technical position.
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And then the third path is the more independent path, right?
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So,
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you know,
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become a consultant,
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become an independent developer,
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launch your own company or join a startup,
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right?
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So I think those are the three main paths.
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And all of them require new skills,
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require leadership skills,
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require negotiation skills,
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require for you to see yourself as someone that needs to get more influence,
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needs to get more responsibility.
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And more responsibility does not equate in more technology, does not equate into more work.
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It’s just a different kind of work.
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That’s interesting way of looking at it.
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I didn’t look at it quite that way.
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So that’s really helpful in terms of it is a different position as you grow.
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Sometimes it’s just learning more, but that’s certainly required because things change.
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But it’s actually a different way of looking at things, different skills needed.
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Now, I’ve noticed that you’ve been talking about these career issues for a few years now.
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You’ve written some books and some things.
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Is this something that you’re really, really passionate about?
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Well, Jim, you know, you just touched it like the biggest thing for me, right?
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Because yes, right?
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You know, one thing that happened to me, especially on this same path, right?
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Because I did that, right?
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You know, I got on a path where I had to ask myself, right?
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So, you know, do I want to be a manager?
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Do I want to be, you know, a technical person, right?
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You know, I do have, I do participate in a few companies, right?
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So, you know, I need to wonder what I really wanted to do.
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And one thing that struck me, Jim, is that
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Since I joined Sun in 1995,
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I was very,
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very lucky that I joined Sun in 1995 and Java came out right after I joined Sun.
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So the first public demonstration of Java happened like a week after I joined.
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Totally crazy.
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Maybe a couple of weeks after I joined.
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Very crazy.
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And so I was right there in the right moment.
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And, you know, I had the opportunity because I was a developer, right?
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And so when Java came out, I got really involved with it from the very beginning.
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And from that moment on,
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one of the things that I took a lot of time from my day job,
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from my family,
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including,
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from my hobbies,
(00:16:55):
I took a lot of time from all those things to help developers improve their careers,
(00:16:59):
right?
(00:16:59):
So I build communities,
(00:17:00):
I build job as groups,
(00:17:02):
I help people become open source developers,
(00:17:04):
I help people become speakers,
(00:17:06):
I help people double,
(00:17:07):
triple,
(00:17:08):
and multiply their salaries from many things,
(00:17:10):
right?
(00:17:11):
And so, you know, I help developers launch their own companies.
(00:17:14):
So, you know, a lot of my
(00:17:16):
personal time,
(00:17:17):
right,
(00:17:17):
was devoted to people that,
(00:17:20):
you know,
(00:17:21):
many of them,
(00:17:22):
I didn’t know,
(00:17:23):
we got together,
(00:17:24):
and then we became friends,
(00:17:25):
right,
(00:17:26):
to build those friendships,
(00:17:27):
right,
(00:17:27):
that really helped people grow so much.
(00:17:31):
And so at some point, right, I was looking and say,
(00:17:33):
I’m so happy in seeing the result that people are having.
(00:17:37):
It’s not about me.
(00:17:38):
It’s about them.
(00:17:39):
Their results are much more important than my results and than my coding that I do, all of that.
(00:17:46):
I said, is there anything I can do to really have more time?
(00:17:51):
Right.
(00:17:51):
To focus on people’s career.
(00:17:53):
And so that’s what I did.
(00:17:54):
I did that move a few years ago where I really start, you know, I start to be more available.
(00:17:59):
Right.
(00:18:00):
So, you know, so I could really help people more.
(00:18:04):
And I think that’s that came in a good moment.
(00:18:08):
Right.
(00:18:08):
Because, as I said.
(00:18:09):
We have so many developers that have so many years of experience, right?
(00:18:14):
And they’re lost.
(00:18:16):
A lot of them are lost.
(00:18:17):
I mean, some developers know exactly what they want to do and they know how to get there, right?
(00:18:20):
And so, oh, they have good mentors and they can just do that jump, right?
(00:18:25):
But there’s a lot of people that they are not sure, they don’t know exactly what to do.
(00:18:29):
And I think that when we start talking about career,
(00:18:32):
right,
(00:18:33):
when I first began that,
(00:18:35):
lots of the events were like,
(00:18:36):
oh,
(00:18:36):
no one is interested about career,
(00:18:37):
right?
(00:18:38):
People only know about technology.
(00:18:40):
You know, it’s not interesting at all.
(00:18:42):
And I even had some events that they let me said,
(00:18:46):
oh,
(00:18:46):
yeah,
(00:18:46):
you can do just one talk,
(00:18:47):
but no one’s going to show up.
(00:18:49):
And then there’s like full room, right?
(00:18:50):
Exactly.
(00:18:51):
People want that, right?
(00:18:52):
Right.
(00:18:53):
And so that’s what I see right now, right?
(00:18:55):
I see there’s a lot of discussion about career,
(00:18:57):
especially because,
(00:18:58):
Jim,
(00:18:59):
I think there’s two moments in the developer career that career is very important,
(00:19:02):
right?
(00:19:03):
One is that when you start.
(00:19:04):
You’re out of the university.
(00:19:05):
You’re just getting your first job.
(00:19:07):
You don’t know what to do.
(00:19:08):
You’re a little lost, right?
(00:19:09):
So you need help on the career, right?
(00:19:11):
And so there’s a lot of people that help develop like this.
(00:19:15):
But there’s a second situation that after you’ve been many years
(00:19:19):
right?
(00:19:20):
You know,
(00:19:20):
10,
(00:19:20):
15 years in your career,
(00:19:22):
you’re,
(00:19:22):
you’re,
(00:19:22):
you’re,
(00:19:23):
you know,
(00:19:23):
you reach a good levels,
(00:19:24):
good positions.
(00:19:26):
And then what you did to get there will not take you to the next level.
(00:19:31):
Right.
(00:19:31):
And that’s when developers come flocking.
(00:19:34):
Right.
(00:19:34):
So they call me and said, Bruno, I don’t know what to do.
(00:19:37):
I’m lost.
(00:19:38):
You know, I had developers that today are very well known.
(00:19:40):
They’re Java champions that when they first called me, they said, you know, I’m going to lose my job.
(00:19:44):
I don’t have money to pay my rent.
(00:19:46):
You know, uh, um,
(00:19:48):
i i don’t know what to do i’m lost right you know and so and so when when you get
(00:19:53):
those people and you you start helping them by focus all as you as you said right
(00:19:59):
jim all the all their their their brain right you know they their their abilities
(00:20:04):
their engineering abilities and you help them see that they can apply these
(00:20:08):
engineering abilities to grow their careers
(00:20:10):
Right.
(00:20:11):
Man, then those people kind of, you know, they explode.
(00:20:13):
Right.
(00:20:14):
And so that’s the work I’ve been doing.
(00:20:16):
And I love it because,
(00:20:17):
you know,
(00:20:18):
when I went on,
(00:20:19):
you know,
(00:20:20):
someone that’s working with me or someone that I’m helping somehow,
(00:20:23):
they call me and said,
(00:20:24):
oh,
(00:20:24):
Bruno,
(00:20:25):
you know,
(00:20:25):
I just got a promotion or I got hired for this new project or I’m loving what I’m
(00:20:30):
doing right now.
(00:20:31):
Right.
(00:20:31):
So, you know, I have this.
(00:20:33):
this friend of mine from England, right?
(00:20:36):
That, you know, he was in a very dark place.
(00:20:38):
And then, you know, he calls me now.
(00:20:40):
He said, Bruno, I’m so excited, right?
(00:20:42):
I’m so excited about my life.
(00:20:44):
You know, I can see, you know, just a year ago, I could not even see a future, but now I’m excited.
(00:20:50):
I do think I work every day.
(00:20:51):
And, you know, he did not even change his company, right?
(00:20:55):
Or another friend I have from India, right?
(00:20:57):
That he became vice president of his company, right?
(00:21:00):
You know-
(00:21:01):
So when you start seeing people having amazing results because they know how to get
(00:21:08):
their engineering brain,
(00:21:09):
their engineering skills,
(00:21:10):
their engineer methodologies,
(00:21:12):
like you said,
(00:21:13):
and apply to their careers,
(00:21:16):
man,
(00:21:16):
the sky’s the limit.
(00:21:18):
It’s just really interesting you say that.
(00:21:20):
And by the way,
(00:21:21):
I’m glad I’m not the only one that sort of freaks out about after a certain number
(00:21:27):
of years,
(00:21:28):
what do I do?
(00:21:30):
But I’ve always been,
(00:21:31):
I mean,
(00:21:31):
I’ve always worked,
(00:21:33):
I’ve worked about half of my whole career in technical teams and also in marketing teams,
(00:21:39):
but equally split.
(00:21:40):
But I’ve worked with scientists and engineers,
(00:21:44):
so they’re a slightly different mindset,
(00:21:47):
but still obviously highly technical.
(00:21:50):
And one of the things I noticed for many,
(00:21:52):
many years,
(00:21:53):
even actually people in the construction trades,
(00:21:56):
people who are highly skilled,
(00:21:58):
they had to learn that through a significant amount of discipline.
(00:22:02):
And a high amount of focus because you can’t really solve hard problems sort of on
(00:22:09):
the surface level of thinking where you’re sort of,
(00:22:12):
you know,
(00:22:13):
you have to be able to transcend a little bit and focus and you can’t be in and out
(00:22:16):
of meetings all day long and actually writing your own kernel code,
(00:22:19):
right?
(00:22:21):
And so I’ve always been sort of jealous,
(00:22:23):
actually,
(00:22:23):
of developers because they have this training earlier on,
(00:22:27):
you know,
(00:22:27):
when they went to school,
(00:22:28):
if they went to CS degrees,
(00:22:29):
or even actually,
(00:22:30):
even if they didn’t go to,
(00:22:31):
you know,
(00:22:31):
through a computer science degree,
(00:22:34):
still many,
(00:22:35):
many years of coding and,
(00:22:36):
you know,
(00:22:37):
the ramifications,
(00:22:38):
especially if you’re working with high-end systems like Linux and Java and Solaris
(00:22:42):
and these kinds of things where it matters that the quality is there.
(00:22:47):
okay it actually matters that things don’t break um because you know these are
(00:22:55):
highly scalable systems and they have to you know have to be available um so i’ve
(00:23:01):
always been jealous i’ve always been jealous of this training but i think i think
(00:23:04):
you’re right i think it does take a different mindset where you have to switch and
(00:23:08):
apply it to something else
(00:23:10):
um it’s something that i’ve i’ve sort of struggled with my whole career basically
(00:23:15):
is how to get more disciplined how to get more focused um how to just perform more
(00:23:21):
efficiently you know right and and one interesting thing right you know you’re
(00:23:26):
talking about something extremely important focus is like you know one of the most
(00:23:31):
important things that we can have but but you know i like to say that we have you
(00:23:35):
know we have the
(00:23:36):
let’s say the low level focus, right?
(00:23:39):
I call this the micro focus, right?
(00:23:42):
There is, you know, I have to, you know, I have to focus for two hours today, right?
(00:23:48):
Or I have to, you know, to really go deep into this thing I’m doing.
(00:23:52):
So we have things like time boxing and productivity discussions and productivity tools, right?
(00:23:59):
So all these is kind of geared towards the micro focus, right?
(00:24:03):
The small focus.
(00:24:05):
But there’s also the large focus,
(00:24:06):
right,
(00:24:07):
the macro focus,
(00:24:07):
right,
(00:24:08):
where,
(00:24:09):
you know,
(00:24:09):
where I’m focused in terms of my career,
(00:24:12):
right,
(00:24:12):
where I’m focused.
(00:24:13):
And a lot of people think that focus, right, is a technology, for example.
(00:24:17):
It’s a tool.
(00:24:18):
You know,
(00:24:19):
one thing I like to say,
(00:24:20):
Jim,
(00:24:21):
is that,
(00:24:21):
you know,
(00:24:22):
my house has like a wood ceiling,
(00:24:24):
for example,
(00:24:24):
wood floor,
(00:24:25):
wood cabinets,
(00:24:27):
right?
(00:24:28):
If a woodwork, I’m not sure, a carpenter, right?
(00:24:33):
If a carpenter comes to my house and say,
(00:24:35):
Bruno,
(00:24:35):
don’t worry,
(00:24:36):
I’m going to fix your roof because I’m specialized in hammers.
(00:24:41):
I’m going to say, no, no, no, no, no.
(00:24:42):
I don’t want a specialist in hammers, right?
(00:24:45):
You know, to fix my roof, right?
(00:24:46):
I want a specialist in roofs to fix my roof, right?
(00:24:50):
And so,
(00:24:50):
you know,
(00:24:51):
a lot of times we developers,
(00:24:52):
we think that the focus that we should have is on tools,
(00:24:56):
right?
(00:24:57):
And it’s not on tools.
(00:24:58):
The focus that we have that we can really make a difference is on solving problems.
(00:25:03):
And so once we change our mindset of you get all the strength that we have on
(00:25:08):
solving problems and we apply this to our careers and start focus on solving real
(00:25:13):
problems because it’s different.
(00:25:15):
Although the carpenter that fixed my roof used the same tools,
(00:25:19):
hammers and saws and drills and all that to fix the roof,
(00:25:25):
If the guy that fixed my roof is not the same carpenter that fixed my cabinets.
(00:25:30):
Because although the tools are the same, the skills are different, right?
(00:25:35):
And I think that’s what we should look at in our careers, right?
(00:25:38):
So, you know, we can be very, very good at tools, but we apply them to solve different things.
(00:25:45):
And the market is desperate for people that know how to solve problems.
(00:25:49):
Yeah.
(00:25:49):
And and so when we are able to position ourselves,
(00:25:52):
we show to the market what kind of problems we want to solve.
(00:25:56):
Right.
(00:25:56):
Then there is there is a wide open opportunity for us because then everyone
(00:26:02):
understands how we can help,
(00:26:05):
you know,
(00:26:05):
the companies and the projects and our cities in the world and everything.
(00:26:09):
Yeah, this I’m really looking forward to your session because I’ll definitely be there.
(00:26:14):
so this is so java 1 is in las vegas this year it’s october 17th through 20th and i
(00:26:21):
don’t know which number of java ones i start yeah i actually joined sun in 2000 so
(00:26:27):
that was my first
(00:26:29):
Java 1 and I remember the keynote line wrapped around Moscone actually to get in
(00:26:34):
and says,
(00:26:34):
oh my God,
(00:26:35):
because I came from 3Com,
(00:26:36):
it was a lot smaller company.
(00:26:38):
Sun at the time was a monster of Silicon Valley, you know.
(00:26:41):
And so I was really, really enthralled by it.
(00:26:46):
I had so many great experiences and I met Gosling in my first Java 1.
(00:26:51):
He was just standing there.
(00:26:52):
I walked over and I was kind of scared actually, you know, because I had heard about him, you know, and
(00:26:57):
and he was just a lovely guy and we had a nice conversation and uh so you know i’m
(00:27:02):
sure you’ve been to every java one um do you have any favorite memories to close us
(00:27:06):
out here
(00:27:07):
So, so I missed the first one, right?
(00:27:09):
So I was, you know, I, I was, I was to a trainee at sun, right?
(00:27:13):
So there’s no way anyone’s going to send me anywhere.
(00:27:16):
Right.
(00:27:16):
So I,
(00:27:17):
I,
(00:27:17):
I missed the first one,
(00:27:20):
but I have been to every single one since then,
(00:27:22):
including all the cold ones.
(00:27:23):
Right.
(00:27:23):
So for me, it’s, it’s, you know, it’s, it’s awesome.
(00:27:27):
The Java one is back.
(00:27:28):
It’s awesome that we’re going to see everyone there.
(00:27:31):
I’m very excited about this.
(00:27:33):
And, and,
(00:27:34):
You know, and just like a quick thing here.
(00:27:37):
One of the things that we’re going to do is that,
(00:27:38):
you know,
(00:27:39):
I’m finalizing the last things because we’re going to do a tour before Java 1.
(00:27:43):
So we’re going to come in, visit several user groups, bring people to Java 1, right?
(00:27:47):
So, you know, so we’re going to do a quick tour in a few Java user groups.
(00:27:51):
You know, some of them are red lineups.
(00:27:53):
Some of them we’re still discussing, right?
(00:27:55):
But, you know, because I’m very excited.
(00:27:57):
I want more people into the event.
(00:27:59):
I want more people to participate, to join us there.
(00:28:03):
And so,
(00:28:03):
and I think one of the,
(00:28:07):
no,
(00:28:07):
as you said,
(00:28:08):
right,
(00:28:08):
you joined,
(00:28:08):
you met James Gosling when you first,
(00:28:11):
in the first Java one.
(00:28:12):
And I think that for me,
(00:28:14):
one of the greatest moments,
(00:28:16):
right,
(00:28:16):
that I have a very good memory is my first Java one,
(00:28:19):
right?
(00:28:20):
That, you know, I was coming, you know, I was just…
(00:28:24):
you know, barely out of being a teenager, right?
(00:28:27):
I was coming in, you know, this first time in San Francisco and wasn’t sure exactly what to expect.
(00:28:36):
I’m a very shy person, so I have to-
(00:28:39):
Yes, I am, man.
(00:28:42):
It’s very hard for me to talk to people, right?
(00:28:43):
So I have to force myself.
(00:28:45):
I love events because, you know, it’s easier for me today, right, to do that, doing events, right?
(00:28:51):
But, you know, so I was coming on.
(00:28:53):
I have no idea what to do.
(00:28:54):
There was an invitation for a party, right?
(00:28:56):
So a pre-event party.
(00:28:59):
And I was like…
(00:29:00):
I’m not going to go.
(00:29:00):
Right.
(00:29:01):
There’s lots of people, lots of people there.
(00:29:03):
Right.
(00:29:03):
So I say, yeah.
(00:29:04):
So, you know, force myself to get out of the room.
(00:29:08):
So I’m going to just going to go there and say hello to people.
(00:29:10):
Right.
(00:29:11):
And so when I walk in, it wasn’t the MoMA, right.
(00:29:15):
The art museum in San Francisco.
(00:29:17):
Right.
(00:29:17):
So beautiful.
(00:29:18):
place so I walk into that place and John Gage is right there right so I had the
(00:29:25):
opportunity before coming to Java 1 John Gage did you know he had this this this
(00:29:33):
monthly event that he did, right?
(00:29:34):
He would do in different places in the world.
(00:29:36):
And he had done in Brazil a few months before.
(00:29:40):
So I had met him in Brazil in a more controlled situation.
(00:29:45):
You know,
(00:29:45):
I helping him there because he brought this very sophisticated topic about security
(00:29:51):
to discuss in Brazil,
(00:29:52):
right?
(00:29:52):
And so no one from the Sun team knew anything about that.
(00:29:56):
So I was the guy that had to talk with him.
(00:29:59):
And so then suddenly,
(00:30:01):
So I see John Gage there, and I’m like, totally naive, man.
(00:30:04):
I just say, hey, hello, John, how you are?
(00:30:06):
And then he starts talking to me, right?
(00:30:08):
So I had no idea who John was, really, right?
(00:30:12):
I knew he was important.
(00:30:13):
I knew he was the chief scientist officer for Sun and all that, but I had no idea.
(00:30:18):
So I’m talking with him, and then suddenly I look around, there’s this huge circle of people.
(00:30:23):
Everyone, the event was circling us, right?
(00:30:26):
Because he was such an important person, right?
(00:30:28):
And I was like, man, I’m right here talking to this guy, right?
(00:30:32):
So it’s such an amazing opportunity.
(00:30:34):
So for me,
(00:30:35):
that memory,
(00:30:36):
and,
(00:30:36):
you know,
(00:30:38):
I had the opportunity to be with John many years after that,
(00:30:42):
right?
(00:30:42):
He always called the Brazilians on stage and all that.
(00:30:45):
So, but, you know, this, for me, it marks a big difference in my, you know, marks when I really saw
(00:30:53):
what we’re getting into right because you know uh um anyway that’s that’s like
(00:30:59):
that’s like a memory that’s kind of deep in my my mind because of that so i saw
(00:31:04):
john um at the sun reunion in 2019 in uh silicon valley and i reminded him that you
(00:31:13):
know when you know because i used to see him at i used to see him at the java once
(00:31:17):
too and i reminded him that
(00:31:19):
he’s one of the few people i know who knows every human being in the world he just
(00:31:25):
has this vast network and he’s he’s a lovely guy he talks to everybody equally you
(00:31:30):
know you can be nobody you walk up to him and in that moment he’s looking right at
(00:31:36):
you and and you’re equal and i remembered that you know vividly gosling was the
(00:31:41):
same and there were many others you know many others yes
(00:31:43):
so yeah it’s a great community it’s a great and it’s been around for a long time
(00:31:48):
and you know it’s got a lot of new people now so there’s a lot of really really
(00:31:53):
cool young people i mean we’ve we’ve been around for a while but there’s a whole
(00:31:57):
new whole new generation because it’s a it’s a cycle you know
(00:32:02):
Yes, and I think that’s very cool, right?
(00:32:04):
So, you know, I don’t even know the numbers, right?
(00:32:07):
But every certain number of years, we have the number of developers in the world double, right?
(00:32:13):
And so that means that, you know, most of the time, maybe almost half of the developers
(00:32:19):
uh there are working right now are you know they have never heard any of that right
(00:32:24):
they’re just starting right they never participated in those events they never
(00:32:27):
heard of the history of the technology they never you know they’re they’re you know
(00:32:32):
and so i think this is an awesome cycle because because then it’s a huge
(00:32:36):
opportunity for everything for you they’re watching us right now right it’s a it’s
(00:32:40):
a huge opportunity for you
(00:32:43):
to share your knowledge, to share what you know to the people that are coming, right?
(00:32:47):
Because there’s always a lot of people coming.
(00:32:49):
And so,
(00:32:49):
you know,
(00:32:50):
people might be two years behind you or even a single year behind you,
(00:32:54):
or maybe they might be 10 years behind you,
(00:32:57):
right?
(00:32:57):
But you can come and you can teach them, you can pass the trade forward, and that will actually help you
(00:33:06):
Because,
(00:33:06):
you know,
(00:33:06):
let me tell you,
(00:33:07):
Jim,
(00:33:08):
I think this is,
(00:33:09):
you know,
(00:33:10):
for what I think are the five most important skills for a developer,
(00:33:15):
right?
(00:33:16):
I think that this is what I call the skill number five, right?
(00:33:19):
Sharing what you know to other people.
(00:33:22):
I think that is the skill that helps you grow more your career, right?
(00:33:25):
So, that is the skill that’s going to help you, you know, really control your career.
(00:33:30):
It’s going to help you really put yourself in the best position in the market.
(00:33:34):
So…
(00:33:35):
You know,
(00:33:35):
use this opportunity that so many people coming in,
(00:33:38):
so many new people in the community to go help them,
(00:33:41):
right?
(00:33:42):
And that will really get your career even better.
(00:33:46):
Excellent.
(00:33:46):
All right.
(00:33:46):
Well, Bruno, let’s call it a wrap for tonight.
(00:33:49):
Actually, for me, it’s night you it’s during the day.
(00:33:54):
And so we’ll see you at Java one Java one is back October 17 through 20th in Las Vegas.
(00:34:00):
I’ll have links for everybody to register and sign up and get involved and we’ll
(00:34:06):
see you there,
(00:34:06):
my friend.
(00:34:08):
Yes.
(00:34:08):
Thanks a lot, Jim.
(00:34:09):
Thanks everyone that’s listening.
(00:34:11):
It’s awesome to be here with you.
(00:34:12):
And I hope to see all of you at Java One.
(00:34:14):
Thanks a lot.
(00:34:15):
Cool.
(00:34:15):
Talk to you soon.